That was amazing.
The movement, the control, the finish. The exaggerated sulks, the slow-motion running, the memorable celebration.
It was like he never left.
If you’re going to use the 34-year-old’s goal as evidence that Chamakh/Arshavin/[insert attacker here] isn’t up to it, that it shows what this squad currently lack, I don’t begrudge you.
But I do feel sorry for you.
If you couldn’t enjoy the simple joy of Thierry Henry’s winning goal, you should give up on football.
Monday night wasn’t about the mind, about solving problems or technical analysis. It was about the heart.
Thank you, Thierry, for another unforgettable moment.
Spread the love for Henry by leaving a comment.
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My thoughts EXACTLY 🙂 I left a similar comment on the previous post. I wasn’t saying we are perfect or that we don’t need any new players. But really on that night (and even 2 days later) none of that mattered. The King came back and made his mark, and brought memories flooding back. It was just perfect. Nothing could spoil it. Not our problems. Not the abuse the referee allowed towards Arteta and Arshavin specially, and not the injury to Coquelin. I can finally start to look forward, but it has been good feeling the joy that Henry brought us all with that goal.
When Thierry left Arsenal i cried and i said there goes arsenal with. I wish he would stay forever and one day take over from AW as our manager. I guess there is no harm in dreaming. His goal brought so much joy and the tears just started rolling.There is not enough plaudits for Henry, he is poetry in motion . PLEASE STAY HENRY we need you at Arsenal. We love you man
More papering over the cracks – you cannot own up to the pathetic home performances that this average team have churned out
@sistable – Are you actually being serious? I feel sorry for you, as I mentioned above.
When your all time top goal scorer is away for so long, the club erects a statue, then comes back and scores a trademark goal to put us through to the 4th round, and avoid an un-needed replay, its always gonna be a nostalgic affair.
There is no papering over the cracks, that goal showed why Henry is the best striker the EPL has ever seen. Media commented on his pace and age, it was never about his pace/age, its his composure and finishing, it was always extra ordinary. You only need to look at our current squad to prove it. I am not suprised our club struggle for goals when the likes of Gervinho and Theo miss 6 yard sitters, they have no composure. A simple side foot tap into the net, not wholely different from a side foot pass, and they cant manage it. Therefore its clearly a composure issue, because TITI is composed he makes it look as easy as it should be.
It was like a dream. Completely agree. Fantastic to see the king return, fantastic to hear the crowd when he was warming up and coming on and just sublime to watch and hear the Emirates roar when he scored, and the celebration was cool too.
But I do want to add, sentiments aside, we need to think practically too – my concern is that with VanPersie we might be able to achieve 4th spot in the league this year, but without VP where do we stand ?
If with VanPersie we have 70% chance of finishing 4th place, then without him my guess is we stand close to a 30% chance. And that is my concern. I don’t wish to sound pessimistic, just concerned. But we can’t hide from the fact that up front we don’t have good enough backup for VanPersie. It may be good enough if our aim is just to compete with Chelsea, Liverpool, Newcastle and maybe Stoke but it certainly isn’t good enough to win the league or battle for the top 3 spots.
Gervinho is acclimatizing to the Premier League not fast enough – missing too many chances to score, and maybe being a bit nervous when he’s in possession in the final third; hopefully he will improve, and the same with Arshavin, but we need them to improve right away not in 2 years – and Chamakh is a different type of striker who doesn’t have the same quality as Gervinho and VanPersie to create chances for himself or the quick feet to run past defenders and thus he’s our plan B striker, for when we don’t succeed in unlocking defences by keeping the ball on the ground and decide to try crossing it so his head can come into play – unfortunately we probably don’t practice crossing enough because there is way too much room for improvement there – we have got better at crossing the ball in, with Sagna, Gibbs, Santos and Jenkinson, but often the striker (VanPersie or Chamakh) isn’t in the right position in the box to meet the cross – and that is extremely frustrating also because it makes us very predictable because we have almost no variety in the way we create chances.
Then theres like Park Chu-Yung. For some reason he hasn’t been played enough. I was hoping he’d play some games instead of Chamakh because I thought he had a good bit of quality about him. Looked like he was skillful, strong and hardworking. Let’s hope that’s true because with Gervinho and Chamakh being away, and with us being miserly as we are when it comes to spending money, we don’t have many options that seem to work. I guess we could try playing Walcott or Arshavin up front with Chamberlain, Rosicky, Benayoun and Miyaichi on the flanks but again who knows how that’ll work out. But I would play Park instead of playing Chamakh so much. Chamakh just doesn’t seem very talented with the ball. And I would try playing Arshavin in the centre either up front or in the Ramsey position. I think he’s being wasted on the flanks.
Let’s hope King Henry can help out Park, Walcott and Arshavin with attacking. And our defence with trying to defend against quality strikers like him.
The clock was turned back when Thierry came on ,and when he scored, WELL! I roared with pure joy. I started to think back to the days when the Gunners were a team with heart,guts and a winning mentality….It took a 34 year old temporary loan signing 20 mins to show this current crop of generally ordinary players ,with the exception of two maybe three players,what it means to wear the Arsenal shirt.
Having come to Arsenal in large part through seeing Thierry Henry and his France teammates (and a certain Dutchman as well) in World Cup play, some of the few games in this sport that American TV showed at the time, and more recently having gotten to see all the DVD highlights come to life with my local club (it was weird the other day, walking into Red Bull Arena and seeing the Emirates Cup), all I could do while following the game on Arsenal-Mania.com (at work… shhhh) was get frustrated, and then, when it happened, sit through the rest of the day with a big silly grin on my face.
Unfortunately, especially on Arsenal-Mania, there are an awful lot of Gooners who act like pre-1989 Arsenal fans, like Colin Firth acted in the movie. Always waiting for something to go wrong. Always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Always waiting for the what-the-hell moment. “Jesus, Paul! You need medical help! You’ve got some kind of disease that turns people into miserable bastards!”
There’s an old saying: Some people are never happy unless they’re unhappy. There’s a more recent saying, from a dubious American TV show: Some people are happier when they lose, because, when you win, there’s no one to blame.
People like that should remember that their favorite team is a special one — shut up, Mourinho. Sure, Arsenal frustrate me sometimes. Sure, there are times when I look at the lineup and wonder if Arsene Wenger, who doesn’t even know I exist, is trying to kill me. But that’s what makes the good stuff so good. Again, I refer to the movie: You don’t get many moments like that in real life, but you don’t get very many of them in football, either. So I cherish moments like that. We all should.
Brilliant moment. Best of the season so far, although RVPs hattrick against Chelski would run it close, just shades that for the nostalgia factor.
Looking forward though, where does it leave us for the next few weeks. Personally I thought Arshavin looked like he was putting in a lot of effort in the cup tie and maybe an extended run in the team in Gervinho’s spot might do him good. Terry Henry will be used as a sub and we can’t count on him saving our bacon every time but between RVP and him maybe our bacon is under slightly less threat than before!
Would also really like to see the Ox get a run over Theo.
Looking forward to the Swans game. But they have an impressive home record so I hope we can get a win.
Who’s left back this week?!
We got Djourou back. We probably have Mertesacker back too. Either Djourou or the Kos will play right back with Mertesacker in the center and Miquel at left back.
A question I had was who does Wilshere replace when he gets back ? Least likely to drop to the bench is Arteta, then Song, so mot probably Ramsey. But we could probably give Arteta a rest once in a while.
I’d prefer the Ox to come in for Gervinho rather than Arshavin. Arshavin has been putting in the effort but he’s just going through a bad spell. How long will we keep hoping his confidence comes back. Why not rather put the Ox and let him tear through the opponents. Him and Walcott would be fantastic with their pace and ability to get past defenders. Although Walcott needs to improve on that front. Maybe the Ox and Arshavin to play instead of Walcott. In any case, I’m expecting Henry to start on the bench and maybe come later on for some Va Va Voom. But the other players need to realize that they can’t keep relying on the King every time. Should be fun to see how Henry and VanPersie play together.
Looking forward to the game ! Excited.
Good posting Andrew and good comments by everyone.
Nice to see other players returning too. Perhaps these fresh option will give us more impetus towards a top four finish.
@Terry Henry’s late goal and Robin’s Hatrick at Stamford Bridge are my so-far season highlights also. If only John Terry could have fallen over durng that Henry goal. Ahhhh, that would have been supremely sublime.
Oh well let’s get all 3 points this weekend and pressure those S***s.
COYG!!!!!!
Chavs win but S***s only manage a home draw with Wolves.
We have to win tomorrow and close the gap. It’s that simple.
Come on you Gunners!!!
Oh yeah I forgot,
Frimpong had a good game for Wolves. The White Hart Lane crowd booed him at every touch of the ball much to his delight. Living up to the role of villain he gave Luka Modric a good kicking and received his obligatory booking. You gotta love it!
As a young gooner with welsh ancestry I went to see the last time these two teams met in Swansea with my uncle who had a season ticket at the old vetch field. Surrounded by Swansea fans I had to suffer the indignity of watching us lose 2-0. Swans had a good team back then. They look good again now and much as I have a soft spot for them and really want to see them Stay up I hope they have an off day on Sunday! Sorry all this Terry Henry nostalgia trip has me all misty eyed and off down my own memory lane.
@left coast thanks for your observations. Would like to have seen frimpong against the spuds! Hope that’s the start of their annual collapse. st Totteringham Day I believe it’s called…
you can hate what i say or love it! Said a while back,ramsey aint shit! Can´t pick a killer pass,can´t tackle,can´t do nothing,today is another reminder why i think he´s just another denilson waiting to happen,tired of underperfoming players wearing the arsenal shirt.
More egg on the face for the fans n wenger don’t give a rat bottom. Don’t blame the players blame the manager,hearts out to koscienly,miguel n rvp u did what u could,arshavin,sleepy walcott, half ill mertersacker and main culprit ramsey! How can u call urself professionals,f#«k sakes!there is no excuses,beaten by our game!
That was terrible.. We were outplayed. Well and truly. The most annoying part was coming back to 2-2 and then immediately giving up a third. Ramsey had an absolute shocker of a game. Walcott was terrible too, except he scored with a good finish. All in all, not good enough. No one was brilliant. Well..No one in an Arsenal shirt at least. But, in a way I feel better about this than some of the ref induced losses we have seen. I can take my team losing to a team that played better than us. That doesn’t mean I’m not angry with the players. I am. I really really am. But I can take a loss and move on from it because it was a deserved loss. It’s up to us to improve.
Oh and a big shout out to Swansea. They played very well. Full credit to them.
I know I’ve said this before but Wenger has nothing more to give to the club. His lack of planning for the game, and his inability to adapt effectively to circumstances during the game, are now legion. The team was shit today, especially Ramsey and Walcott, but the lack of penetration and the continual passing sideways or backward is so passe’ in modern football. Any club aiming to win anything must go forward to produce goals. Expect another routing by Manu and Milan in the coming weeks – so frustrating for us faithful gunners.
Hi, again. well. I have to say it just wasn’t good enough again today. I have to say well done to Swansea.I wished they were in the Arsenal strip because they showed 50% more commitment than us. Ramsey had a mare of a game.Arshavin was useless apart from his pass for the goal.Walcott was missing apart from his goal.
koscielny was asleep for the winner and the goalie doesn’t know where he is most of the time.Mertesacker can’t put a simple 1 yard tap in on target.
All the passes were far to slow thats why Swansea kept getting yhe ball of us.
This team needs to be disbanded for good.
Samba is available, to start up the defence again.but we won’t get him coz of Wenger.Just like Cahill ,Mata Etc.Etc,Etc….
HAHA.. Sorry..But the problem is poor passing and you say get Samba? That’s just funny.. Sorry again. But it is.. Not every solution is about firing the manager, getting rid of the players etc. We were outplayed today after a long time. No way am I defending the performance cos I’m still angry about it. But please.. get real.. Cahill can go to hell. Mertesacker is better and we got him for 7million less than Bolton wanted for Cahill. Mata was a loss, but what can you do if someone offers more money than you to a player? Like I said..Get real.. No denying the problems.. Solutions aren’t so simplistic I’m afraid.
Ouch,
That was painful. We were not well prepared or motivated and it cost us dearly.
Will this be the last of such lackluster performances against inferior opposition. I hope so but I fear not. We knew S***s had dropped points before the game and that we needed to atone for the Fulham loss still we were sub-par.
And to be fair even in misery, Swansea worked their asses off up and down the pitch, never got their heads down and very muched earned all three points.
Well gang,what’s next?
wazzup shard, leftcoast, gunnerboss…all you fellas.
havnt been on in a while theres a little gooner due any day so been distracted.
just wanted to say about thierrys goal the other night…loved it, everyone did im sure….what a moment. But the reality is that it was a horrendous performance. Thierry will be gone again in a few weeks but we will be left with the same squad and seemingly one dimensional minded manager. Anyone whos watched Swansea knows their threar comes from wide through Dyer and Sinclair. Now obviously we are currently down defenders, of which there has been 14 days to have sorted by now, but that aside, even if he doesnt sign anyone, why are we persisting every week for the last 6 years with tge 4-3-3, when sid that become the rule? esoecially when your playing ramsey and benayoun in the middle three….your effectively asking song to hold off their wholemidfield
Apologies, posting by phone.
We made their frontman look like Higuain today..i get sick in my stomach watching these performances, teams around us drop two points, we manage to drop three…its groundhog day…you get a defeat and performancelike that of fulham and leeds and you hope they come out fighting next match but they rarely ever do, and the attacking is so deliberate and predictable even the worst teams can snuff us out.
Why loan Frimpong if he can do what he did yesterday vs spurs and then we have to look at that midfield today.
So many passengers at the moment I dont even think a clear out will help. We really are a top six club now
Shambo,
Congratulations man. Best of luck to you, and your about to be added to family.
Anyway. Onto football. Firstly, sorry to be pedantic but we haven’t been playing 4-3-3 for 6 years. When did we switch? Umm I think it was 2009? And then the next season we made a slight tactical switch to playing more of a 4-2-1-3 rather than a 4-1-2-3 (if that makes any sense)
I suppose you could look at the formation and all today and probably come up with some good points. But for me, the formation wasn’t the problem. Even with the personnel we had, I am not sure if a different formation would have had better use out of them. The one thing you can expect Arsenal to normally do is pass the ball well. That isn’t down to formation, if anything a change in formation could harm that. But today, the team didn’t do it. It was so uncharacteristic an Arsenal performance so as to be unbelievable. But I think Swansea deserve credit too. It wasn’t just us being bad. They actually play good football. Only ManU has won there and I remember that game and they got lucky with Swansea missing many chances. It finished 1-0 to them, but they were played off the park. Swansea can play.
That doesn’t excuse our performance. Especially the stupid errors. We couldnt hold the ball for what seemed like 10 seconds at a stretch. Ramsey stupidly stuck out his leg in the penalty area. He also was dispossessed for the second goal. Kos and Per messed up the offside for the third. I don’t think that’s to do with tactics. The players just didn’t perform to the level they should. That doesn’t absolve the manager of his share of the responsibility, but that’s more to do with the preparation aspect I feel than the tactical. But like I said, I find it less painful to accept defeat when I feel like we deserved it. We totally did deserve to lose today because our performance merited just that. We must play better, and more as a team from now on. (P.S. I also think it showed how important Arteta has become to our midfield)
How to improve? I don’t know really. It’s so hard to pin down the reasons for this performance because it just seemed like most of the players didn’t turn up rather than some footballing issue. I do think a signing or two should be done, but I only look for that in hope rather than expectation, and definitely not with a sense of entitlement. And it’s not like we can’t improve on today without any new personnel.
Here’s to a better performance and result next time around. What we saw today is not very good I’m afraid.
Once again, my best wishes to you Shambo.
@shard,
Thanks mate,
On the formation you are probably right I just think Wenger has to start taking other teams strengths and weaknesses into account rather than thinking Arsenal has the right to go out and play the way they want to play ALL the time, especially now that we have lost the quality and right to be regarded as a top four side.
So much in fighting going on amongst fans and the topic is no longer on
the manager or his stubborness…fans are now arguing on which Arsenal players are more inept than the next…
Arshavin
ertesacker – who we all want to be a success but isnt thd player we need
chamakh arshavin mertesacker djourou walcott squillachi almunia park fabianski diaby benayoun rosicky jenks – personally i like this guy…..then you have bendtner vela denilson….now c’mon be real these guys wudnt get near our competitions squads and the proof is there for all to see….because noone wants to sign any of them either.
Shard I really cant see the solution to even making top four pal.
Hey Shambo,
Congrats and good luck on the young one!
The only important thing is that it’s healthy (and a midfielder) 😉
Yeah we have our problems right now, but who knows a couple of wins and we might get back in the race. Of course the thought of going another year without winning a competition AND not securing a Champions League spot is grim but if it has to be endured what else can yo do?
Good to hear from you and again best wishes on the new one 🙂
I couldn’t think of anything positive to say,what we need is bravehearts who know they are not professionals but re willing to give 100 percentage every match,wenger is arrogant like sepp blatter he acts like he knows best so if the fans like him what can you do about it?(its not my true intention to use sepp blatter)nothing! but stand firm with the team,I don’t give a f@ck about who is coming back,becoz after they come back and play a while they get injured again,so where is the flippin different having them back ,rememba I go by the last six years of arsenal campaigning for trophies,wenger should get his face out of his backside and start realizing the game is won n loss now with whoever he has to come on,he wanted the so call stars,now he must live with it.
Leftcoastgooner- pls I don’t know what’s worst seeing that at 27 u re losing ur hair n need glasses to drive or working ur butt off to come to home to be rewarded with a defeat without losing with dignity?
The Swans are a decent footballing side and having seen them a few times this season, the defeat in itself is nothing to be ashamed of, but the manner of the loss is hard to take. Their second and third goals should never have been allowed to happen. Sloppy play, lack of concentration, it’s a bit of a broken record. No one really did themselves of the shirt justice. The whole team looks jaded and lacking ideas. I really thought we could win and put pressure on for 3rd or 4th but at this rate we will be struggling for 5th or 6th.
We really missed Arteta and the whole full back saga has become a bit of a joke. I can’t see RVP signing that contract extension at the end of the season.
Hard to think of any positives from this performance.
@shambo, good luck with the little tacker – rather than a midfielder its a fullback we need right now!
To be honest , even ARteta has been just good enough not great IMO . I agree with TErry, I do not see RVP staying with ARsenal if we do not make the CL next year. We need to say goo bye to 4 or 5 players and bring in some new blood. The whole world knows we need a creative midfielder, a defensive midfielder cause if SOng gets injured we’ll in trouble,another striker.
We were force into a panic buy last fall after our trashing by united. We need to be proactive , sitting on our hands could be costly. Perhaps we need a new manager , younger hungrier, ambitious. Wenger has been great for us, but it is time to turn the page before it is too late and find ourselves finishing in mid table and without only world class player gone!
@This is why we MUST love GunnerBoss…..
I remember when Andy wrote his “Why we love …..” series, I was miffed about the ‘Why we love Chamakh edition’ because he failed to see the guy was just basically scoring tap ins and the fact that he was fed from FABs, Nasri…No speed or shot accuracy(does he ever shoot?) etc. I would’ve preferred a “Why we love Song” instead at that point in time.
Now, I’ve noticed a terrible Ramsey for the past 2 months…..and I mean VERY TERRIBLE. Against Swansea, one would’ve expected Ramsey to let the more experienced Israeli attacker do his work, but Ramsey made the midfield to practically fail because he often went in front of Benayoun thereby restricting his influence in the much needed service to the strikers. We know Songs assists are legendary these days, he never had the chances to come forward because the whole midfield was in his hands. This is where we are very lucky to have Arteta because he can play anywhere in midfield, not the Israeli and this is where Ramsey killed the team aside the fact that he cannot shoot or lay passes accurately. Ramsey was full of running in the first half and got tired in the second, indirectly causing goals against us. Why the manager REFUSED to take him off beats me completely.
When we have such a potent attack (Henry & RVP do not need three chances to score), why cant we re-order the midfield to lay thru balls only? We do not have full-backs, but centre-halfs……why cant we play three in the centre and close the midfield OR we restructure to ensure Swansea CANNOT use the wings against us? Why did we have to take away Song from the midfield when we know he can surge forward and lay a crucial assist? Why couldn’t we replace Per Tree with Djourou, block the midfield(replace Ramsey with Rosicky) and put Walcott and Chamberlain on the right to torment their left side and peg them back? With Rosicky, Benayoun and Song in the centre of midfield, I believe we would have had that KILLER pass and we would have won that game.
I never knew Ignasi could cross the ball so well, how we could not get him more often in that crossing position beats me. This takes us back to my (abuse?) at the manager for playing our beloved Santos in an utterly meaningless champions league match. Can we see that we have lost our best defender(Vermaelen) because he has been made to deputise at left back(1. exerting more energy than necessary, 2. he was supposed to be nutured back after the long term injury lay off) because of injuring Santos in that meaningless match? We have also lost another key man(Coquelin) in the defensive/central midfield position (who could have been an option in midfield) because we had to take him out to right/left back to cover for other injured personnel after loaning out Frimpong.
The result is that we have completely limited our effectiveness as a unit because a lot of the people deployed are not used to their present positions or the people playing next to them. Secondly, the coach has completely been unable to fashion out a strategy to utilize the players he has into a workable pattern/formation, but keeps sticking to his preferred 4-3-3 formation in complete disrespect for the opposition even when we knew they are very strong at home.
This is why we love? GunnerBoss…..
I have never been one of the “Wenger out” brigade, but& it’s becoming more and more convincing. I always figured that Arsène needed to change a FEW SIMPLE things, but he has continually failed to even SEE our issues let alone make the required changes. And then it hit me – what if he’s just not able to? What if he has taken us as far as his weary legs can? There’s absolutely no shame in that – after all, people like Martin Luther King, William Wallace and Moses didn’t make it all the way to the “Promised Land”. When we attain that seemingly elusive “self sustainability”, I’m sure he’ll get the credit for his contributions. But please& let’s consider that perhaps he has run out of ideas and has become a liability to the club (against his intentions, I’m sure), and would do more for the club at this point if he made way for some fresh ideas. I think he has survived enough on the merits of his previous achievements, but we must now act solely in the interests of the club, look forward, and create new history.
Wenger can lose every game for the rest of the season and it would not matter. Results are not important “winning things isn’t everything” is what Wenger said and what did the board say about that remark ? Nothing ! No, as long as he is making profit that is all that matters. The key problem here is not the board or the manager its the people who renew their season tickets every season and the people who pay to watch this garbage every home game. As long as they have money coming in the board will not give a toss about results – the key to change lies with the fans.
@The flyingdutchmen,
For goodness sake Dutch cheer up. I’m twice your age, need glasses to ride my bike to work and come home to see the same poor performances by the team as you do. My old age has one advantage though. I have been through a few Arsenal managers and more than a few mediocre sides so after a while you realise that being spiteful or calling for everybody’s head on a pewter plate does no good.
Whatever our current problems are we had better sort them out quick: Next up, Manchester United and yeah, we have an 8-2 score to settle.
Ha ha you thought that was Barca !! hell not wake up. Its Swansea. If any of you continues to rate a mediocre player in Ramsey to play for a top four team you are mistaken. HE CANT MAKE THE GRADE IN ANY OF THOSE TEAMS. I just feel sorry for Henry to witness this. Can some one save us the curse of Wenger. He is absolutely rubbish and has lost any tactical acumen. The Ox became the most impact player on the pitch but it was too late. Is Arteta injured.
Benayoun was a failure at Chelsea only for Wenger to bring with intention of buying him. Rosicky should surely be playing his last season.The midfield is a total joke around. We dont seem to have ambition and neither direction all at the expense of an incompetent coach. Realistically top four is gone and expect another thumping come Sunday. We must buy and prepare for next season otherwise i cant see us finishing above Newcastle or Liverpool. They have better squads than the one this French man is willing to assemble. There are no more lies again . We have been beaten well by mediocre teams consecutively and its gona be the same on Sunday.
I always stick up for my beloved Arsenal and stick up for them probably through rose coloured glasses. I have to say the critiscm of Ramsey is unfair, he’ll be a great player one day and its hardly his fault he has no viable back up to rest him. The problem is Arshavin, he loses the ball all the time, we need someone to treasure the ball. But back to Ramsey, no way was that a penalty in fact that slimy little Swansea player should have been red carded for going over the top. OK he lost the ball for the 2nd but it was hardly a good ball from arshavin. I was sat theEmirates the other night when the king returned,,,, fantastic will live in my memiry forever. but who gave the ball away for the 3rd, Nobody will critisise the King (and rightly so) What a difference when Arshavin went off, Rosicky and the Ox made a huge difference I could even try to make a case for Chamakh, when Arshavin loses the ball his body language is apalling
I do wonder sometimes if our club is a charity club why players like DIaby,Arshavin,Chamakh, SQuillacci are still collecting wages at Arsenal?
Song has been playing too many games. Who is his back-up if he is hurt.
The board might be happy with the profits, but the loss will be costly if we don’t make the Cl. It is as if we are sleeping walking,there is no imagination.
I am sure there are players in the championship league who could be helping the team and injecting some steel we lack.
We lack creative players, have we checked in Argentina or Brazil ?
It seems money , is not our only problem…
@Gunfest
You ask penetrating questions and make sound suggestions.
But who in a position to make changes is listening?
we love henry he’s the best arshavin’s rubbish!
@ Buggered by the Queen
I have watched in frustration for many years. IMO nothing will change until we miss the Cl and RVP decides to leave. The danger is that it will be very hard to rebuild a team and attract world class players when you are not in the CL.
The time to spend wisely was last summer, we din’t do it… We had to panic buy! with mix results . I have this sinking feeling that our greatest manager might leave us one day with a big mess that will take years to repair!
This morning Peter Hill-Wood tells the Guardian that Arsenal not qualifying for the Champions League would not be a disaster.
Perhaps not, but it would be a big disapointment and another mile marker down the wrong road.
We don’t need a lot of help right now,but one or two quality players in the right areas would certainly help. If Robin, like Cesc before him decides to leave this un-willingness to invest in top-flight players will be why.
Never-the-less, Man-U is on for this weekend and we should do all we can to prepare and win. I’m taking a sick day to stay home and watch the match live. I hope I don’t end up ill. 🙁
Boy!! our defense has real problems, BUT i have to take into consideration the amount of injuries we have in this position, so that aspect of our team should be cut some slack FOR NOW!!!
up front is were am really disappointed i saw the list of the top 30 goal scores in the prem and the lowest recorded was 5 and we only had robin in there, simply speaking that’s ridiculous. Gervinho and in particularly walcott have not pulled there weight, As i said before walcott can no longer be considered a young man he is into his 6 season and his progress has been too slow, Yes he should be blamed BUT ultimately the buck stops with the manager because if he had worked out he would get all the praise.
We have united coming up and i can’t help but remember what Mourinho had said when he coached at inter, simply put: when two big teams meet in a match the manger’s job is easy because he doesn’t have to motivate the players they motivate themselves for various reasons. The manager’s ability to motivate gets tested when they meet lesser teams and think this should be easy. Wenger’s job is easy this week because the team will no doubt motivate itself especially after the 8 we got last year, its the games against the so called lesser teams where i really intend to judge wenger.
On the swansea game I have one point to make that has really shocked me
Ashavin has been really poor for a long while with a very low work rate
(must mention he’s playing out of position) every body knows that swansea have good wingers and play primarily through the wide areas, knowing that why in gods name would you play ashavin from the start especially with the way he’s been playing a player with a better work rate was needed. I’m totally lost at what wenger does in training and tactics, his errors are school boyish and not of an intelligent coach.
Take Barc for example they have good players BUT the manger also is a master tactitian ask mourihno because any body that beats him so often has to be good tactically and that’s the point you can’t coach in modern football and not use tactics if you know the opponents weakness and strength that’s half of your problem solved.
I think that our problem is that the board and in particular the manager has not changed with the times and the sad thing is, its not huge changes that are required but suttle changes here and there.
I want revenge for that 8 goals we got last year it gives me night and day sickness……….
@Retsub – Do you watch our matches? I guess not. Before, i say stuff here, I would have seen it for some time to get the proper moral……
Ramsey has been POOR for a while now, it got to a head in that match. Wilshere MUST bench him immediately when he gets back.
This is why I dislike people like Byo who do not think twice before criticizing the views of others here. Byo where are you now and can you see where we are as a result of playing Santos (our best left back) in a meaningless match?
Now back to the genuine fans, Arshavin is out of position, I guess I will never have the impetus to attack him because WHEN HE CAME, he lifted us massively. Secondly, he has been played completely out of position from virtually day one. He was the 14th best player in the world when he came, we have failed to take him higher/maintain his work-rate. Against Swansea, he was a little bit tired, but he exhausted himself against Leeds days earlier. Why could the manager not bring him on in the second half?
We have an Ox waiting to be unleashed, a fresh Ox for goodness sakes……why our Ox could not start or come on earlier when we saw how the game was going, I will never know.
We should have been training on getting the ball more quickly to the strikers, but from Djourou to Miguel, every Arsenal player now passes backwards….this is why I love Rosicky and Song, they KNOW how to turn and dribble.
I just hope we dont loose Kos, he really really exerted himself like Vermaelen did before his little lay-off.
How this guy has been unable to successfully scout new recruits beats me like mad, hell I wouldn’t mind Tevez/Kaka etc
ALL THE KNEE-JERK REINFORCEMENTS WENGER MADE BEFORE TRANSFER DEADLINE WERE NO-WHERE AGAINST SWANSEA AND WE LOST……
I fear we must buy or he changes tactics or else? It will be like relegation if we dont make top four……..the spirit of the team may be affected for a while, talkless other ripple effects. We saw how hard it was for us to recruit last fall when we were not sure of Champs league group stages.
Spend money on quality players or qualify as top three
It only struck me earlier today, but I had to muster a chuckle when it did (is was either laugh or cry). But we have descended into madness. Why? Well, this is the first time in 15 years that we have all realised the title is 100% not going to happen. In the past few years we may have been bad, but there was always a glimmer of hope that a late title charge may come around, and whilst every man and his dog was writing us off the most hardened gooner (myself included) thought ‘we can still get this title if x and y result happens’. This time around, we have all accepted that our state of affairs has left us desperately scrambling to get into the Champions League. Basically, 4th is our ultimate prize. As i said, had to laugh..
To be frank I think we are being a little harsh om Ramsey. He has good skills, good work rate but is he a top 4 team , 1st team caliber player? No IMO
He is the type of player that on a very good squad can come in the second half when there is an injury and do the job for you.
We play possession football in order to make it work , we need players with technical skills of world class level. We need a player like Hazzard from Lille , even watching a player like Ben Arfa with New castle his ability to do the unexpected .
We have close to the top 4 because of RVP an injury to him and we don’t make the top 6 IMO . Chamakh is not good can’t score unless it is a tapin . He can’t get a ball turn and shoot anywhere over yards from the goal!
Park the Korean why did we get a player who was mediocre on a mediocre Monaco team. At least if he was scoring for fun there, I could understand the logic.
There was a time when world class players wanted to come play at Arsenal,they saw a well organized club with a great playing style, ambitious and competing for major trophies every year. Now we moved to a 60 000 capacity stadium and has the product on the field improved? No
@Gunfest
Why bad-mouth Park? We have no idea what kind of player he is since he doesn’t play. He has one goal in three appearances. Who else on the team besides Robin and Henry have that strike ratio.
Park’s big crime is that Wenger won’t play him and if you say that’s because he’s no good I say Bentdner,Denilson,Fabianski,Squillaci and Arshavin either are or have been massive under performers that have gotten many chances.
Gunnerboss
In response to your comment about do I watch my team the answer is I guess so! I suspect a lot longer than you have. I first saw Arsenal in the early sixties! I was at we blew when they lost. To Leeds and Swindonin successive league cup finals. I saw every home game and quite afew away in thee 1971 double side. I count the Michael Thomas. Goal at Anfield as one of the great moments in my life. my kids first words were Arsenal. I have been tio about 6 games this season and seen pretty much every one on Tv or stream, so I repeat yes I am qualified tio have an opinion. I didn’t say Ramsey was the greatest player I’d ever seen I said he would be great ones day. Arshavin on the other hand seems incapable of retaining the ball. Watch him carefully as soon as he loses the ball his head drops . As to him playing out of position, if you can’t control a football you can’t play in any position
Just my opinion and many other fans I’ve spoken to at the emirates. I may be wrong I may be right but please don’t suggest I don’t have the credentials to give my opinion
Kel@ in impressive comment,but its reality and fellow gooners are not seeing the main picture of playing football,why continue with a system that’s keep on failing for the last six years with excuses such as players missing,mistakes ,bad referee decisions and poor managerial decisions,enough said,who is arsenal and what as arsenal become?that the question gooners should ask before defending wenger n the awful selection of players,wenger is not bluffing me and the die hard arsenal fanatics, trophies measure success not scraping for 4th place,I demand adequate answers so do the gooners that pay the bill to watch them play on cable and by the stadium.
Once again dissent and dissafection abound in our ranks.
Very well gentlemen perhaps it is warranted.
What is really at a premium is a quality win against a quality side.
This Sunday versus the scarlet Mancunians will give us such an opportunity.
Carpe Diem.
@kel
Fair points in that post. I have a few disagreements. 1) I don’t think Wenger and the board have failed to change with the times, I believe they are actually ahead of the times (which has its own pain, but with some hope of a reward) 2) I don’t think Guardiola is a great tactician at all (nor Mourinho for that matter) In fact, I don’t know what a great tactician means. But really, I’m not convinced Guardiola could manage a team not bred with tiki taka. Barca DNA remember? (Yuck) 3) Not really a disagreement, because I agree with you. But Wenger has always liked players who motivate themselves. Who think for themselves. It doesn’t always work out that way, but you do have to take the rough with the smooth in that regard. Outthinking the manager on tactics is useless. He is very much his own man. I too would like Arshavin playing behind RVP. At least to try. But for whatever reason the manager thinks that isn’t the way to go. I would argue with that, except he sees them everyday in training. I don’t.
Anyway. I don’t mean it to sound that I’m only disagreeing with you. These were some different points of view, but largely I agree with your post.
@ flyingdutchman
Demand away my friend, but speak for yourself.
@Retsub – Sorry about that. Pls accept my low bow of respect.
U r a true legendary fan.
It just seems you do not notice his(Ramseys) mistakes as much as I do. Same goes for me and Arshavin, the fact that he even signed for us cant allow me see his wrongs. I guess we are lucky to have him at all and I always hope his form will improve for us.
Gunner boss
Well said a true gentleman,lets hope for 8. O on Sunday 4 for arshavin and 4 for Ramsey
To write off Ramsay altogether is just silly. Sure he has had some poor games recently but he is not alone. He has probably played more games than anyone this season when at the start of the season he would not have figured in those plans – Fabregas, Wilshire, Nasri would probably have been above him in the pecking order.
Defensively we wtill have lots of problems. The fullback situation is the big factor. The sooner we can get Sagna and Santos/Gibbs back fit the better. Mertesacker continues to disappoint me. He seems hesitant at crucial times and is not the dominanct centerback we all craved. But I don’t think Cahil would have been the answer – he is not that good otherwise his team would not be holding up the rest of the league. For me Koscielny has been our best performer at the back and Vermeulen alongside him when we are back to full strength should be the preferred combo in my opinion.
I was reading one of the other Arsenal blogs* (sorry Andy but one of the ones where they have posts put up more regularly!) and the writer did a really good job analysing our squad and its deficiencies (and I think it’s a theme that some of you guys have raised here and previously). There is a sizable chunk of our 25 man squad who for whatever reason – form, hunger, lack of ability, being played out of position, lack of confidence, injuries – take your pick or add to the list – are taking up space in our squuad and underperforming (or just not performing at all)
Chamakh
Walcott
Arhavin
Park
Djorou
Mertesacker
Diaby
Miyachi
Almunia
And then there are the ones on loan who we can’t or won’t sell – Bendtner, Vela, Denilson
Now you may agree or disagree about whether some or all of these should be on the list and maybe others who you think should be (Rosicky and Benayoun for example) but it needs to be addressed.
For me our best players this season have been
RVP, Koscielny, Song, Arteta, Sagna before he got injured) and Szcseszny.
Gervinho, Ramsay, Santos, and a few others have been OK – good at times and frustrating at others.
Bottom line – to win the league it’s your squad strength that will decide it. I maintain our first eleven or fourteen are the equal or better than our rivals, but it’s our next ten or eleven where we don’t stack up.
* Arseblog I think was the site
@ Terry , I agree with some of your points. Except for Arteta , I do not rate as high as some of you do, he is a good player , but nothing special. He does not inject any creativity in our midfield. I agree with your list of players who underperforming. I would argue many of these players should be let go and new players brought in . Even with all our current players healthy , IMO the best we can hope for is top 4.
We know one thing foe sure RVP has been hurt and missed a few weeks every season he has been playing for Arsenal, we should all pray in he doesn’t this season, otherwise it will be a long one.
We lack scoring in our squad. Gervinho is not a striker , he is a dribbler who creates chances, not a good finisher. We could all see without him in the squad we created little chances.
@gunfest
I think Arteta has provided a stablising in midfield and has played in a deeper role than he had at Everton, allowing Song and Ramsay to push further upfield. He is probably the best of the three in terms of keeping possession and that facet was misssed against Swansea.
Anyway, bring on Manure this Sunday. I can’t w8-2 watch that game!!!
I agree with Terry. Arteta has been crucial in stabalizing the midfield and allowing Song and Ramsey to do more creative things. Also you may notice he does not give possesion away. This is in itself is priceless especially since Ramsey tends to cough it up as does Arshavin.
Also,how about adjusting our tactics to the players we have? It’s clear Arshavin is not a winger, we’ve been at this for three years now, why not move him more centrally behind the main striker where he can provide a bit of chaos for the opposition back four. We play the same tactical game repeatedly and EVERYONE lower league teams included have adjusted to it.
Last but not least. Park was a good striker before he got here. Wenger ‘s unwillingness to play him is a personal bugaboo of which he has many.We have signed other Asian stars in the past can you name ONE that has actually played for the team?
Yeah after the 8-2 thumping back last year Wenger promised it will be a totally different atmosphere on the return leg. Guys me and you are waiting.About Ramsey,like i earlier commented about Chamakh before many came to realize,truth is that the guy is not good enough for any top four team. He is a good back up not a first teamer.The only goal i remember him score was against Udinese last year and even them it was a tap in. Never accurate at all and full of useless running all over the pitch. We need an attacking world class midfileder,prolific striker and Vertenhogen(…) to partner Koscienly. Vermaleen is un reliable and an injury prone player akin to Ledley king. His presence in the squad but absence for bigger chanks of the season has also cost us. I hope we start our redemption tommorrow.
I would really like to see Arshavin play just behind Van Persie, kind of in the Ramsey position. This is where he want to play and where is at his best: he played there at Zenith, plays there for Russia and delivered most of his assists this season when drifting in this kind of position.
I don’t understand why Arsène doesn’t want to play him there. I imagine it is because of Andrei’s lack of defensive commitment, but I believe it is less crucial to be a defensive presence when you play behind the striker than when you play on the wing, where you have to cover for the full back.
What do you think?
@Per
I think you a right. Never mind his defence, the 18 million we spent on him is gone. We could not pass him off on Lazio for 6 million. I would rather get some offensive production out of him than eat the whole crow pie.
Well guys on the slightly jaded but bright side or visa versa, Chelsea drew with Norwich,Liverpool got beat by Bolton,Newcastle got thumped by Fulham and gave up 5 that’s right FIVE in the process. Oh, by the way Sunderland blanked the mighty,mighty Swans 2-nil. So you see it can be done.
Ramsey has been terrible since november last year,he plays a more advanced midfield role bt he has jst had one direct assist this season…he cannot lay any throuh pass,rvp’s goal came 4rm an arshavin assist wen he drifted into d midfield,walcotts goal came 4rm a deep pass 4rm d defence,our midfield is non existent and dont none of u say we missd arteta,he was in d fulham game where we were completly outplayed in d 2nd half by a team dat lost by 5 goals to manchester united…i have already resigned to us playin in d europa league nxt season unless chelsea continues to play the way they r playin then maybe we have a hope.i neva tot i’d see the day spurs wuld be 10 points ahead of us,nw it has happened and to think they started d season badly 2.since we lost our full backs,our wingers had been predictable by opposition defenders,we jst hope they return soon
It felt like a dream
hi all, whats been appening since ive been away, any improvmnts or new direct’n. Not looking 2day, no punch, or drive, ramsey passing 2 slow 4 the wide boys. rather poor need change @ fullback
Its hard to come up with many positives after that, but well done Ox. I thought Kos was brilliant, if only some of the others showed the same level of comiittment
Another victory for Manu. Who needs players in January window and selling a player in january window is not fair as the player or the manager is not loyal.
Why you are forcing to correct mistakes in january window?. That’s not fair
Adamant,Stubborn – We are witnessing how a great manager falls with the worst character of his life.
Wenger don’t know what you doing? Wenger don’t know what you doing?finally the crowd is getting on wenger back why didn’t this happen earlier.
@Shard, how you do mate, reading your comments about Wenger and the board being ahead of the times, Guardiola not being a great tactician, WHAT THE
7 years of lies, excuses and atrocious management. Today really takes the cake. Taking off our best player Ox for Arshavin who’s been woefully out of form. To top it off, he gives the assist for Welbeck’s goal. Wenger totally deserved every boo that came his way. Let’s hope the fans will force him out soon because that’s what’s truly needful. No papering over the cracks anymore
Voley gun : wenger stubborn ways will be his downfall, I am with you on that
It neva to late to change the game plan,if manu thought they lost out the most,they are wrong we lost out the most why? Becoz manu was at their weakness and that we will not get again,
Rubbish ramsey vs old man giggs ,old man wins,absolute disagree
Thank you kos! Thank you mertesacker! Thank you ox!
There is just no excuses,manu had injuries arse had injuries
so the game was even arsenal were not weak just predictable n players who just plain damn useless
Shard, Sorry man I still cant get over what you wrote about Wenger and the board being ahead of the times, quite sorry to have read that from you.
Regarding the game I dunno what all you doom and gloomers are on about, any other midtable club would be content with a 2-1 loss, albeit at home, to an ambitious title chasing (injury ravaged) top four side like Utd…we have to really concentrate on our head to heads with stoke fulham sunderland and everton now to secure our race for the uefa cup next year.
Wenger: the Arshavin for Ox susbstition just reinforces how tactically astute you are…youv still got it bro I bet those doom and gloomers have egg on their faces…youv shown ambramovich and the sheiks that money isnt everything and mediocrity and high wages can be acheived without signing proven internationals…I tip my hat to you Sir.
realistic the cliche is takes the biscuit not takes the cake. nice to see u bak shambo how u doing. anything changed
Hey Ice,
Alls good my end bro good to hear from you….you didnt happen to see where my club went did you?
hey Hammer,
hows it been?
I see you boys are making the bid back to the prem. Damn fine work.
Not to worry we’ll keep a spot warm for you.
Well we were predictable but at least we didn’t embarress ourselves too badly.
I think I was the only person in an Arsenal jersey who did not get booked today. I’m hating it but so what. On we go.
Shambo mate, i think Wenger would disagree wid you, he thinks its his club. Its so strange to see how many points are consistantly being droped by top 4 teams. Cause of this fact your boys still have a chance of making the champs league. Not sure if that makes the league weaker or just more competitive. Do you think there will be any late signings before the window or your opportunity for a top 4 place closes. Dont understand why Wenger let Fringpong out on loan, as i said before and still say, Song still needs his help in preventing teams from getting to the back four. Combo of midfield 4 to light weight. Why will Wenger not see it, every season in the near past when depth of squad is tested this happends. City and Manure are there for the taking.
leftcoast, missed u boys, ammers football sub-standard as entertainment goes, but at this moment who gives a shit as long we gain promot’n. Nex year after paying off big Sam and employing O’neil we’ll be like a big train…smoaking….and if you or others dont get off the tracks we will role right over you. Leftcoast, Shambo how the fcuk did Newcastle see that kind of potential in Demba Ba and Wenger’s scouting team didn’t. Why the ell did we not see it and make a few quid. £15,000000.00 at least. I suppose most clubs act like sheep, BAAAAAAAAAAA!
I think if we don’t qualify top 4, Wenger will go. With Arshavin I hope. Van P will almost certainly go and I expect a new manager will ring the changes. New season, new manager, new players. At least Per had a good game against Man U and was MOTM until the winner. I think we’re no better than 7th or 8th.
We ‘ve had players who are not top 4 quality for a while. We made excuses for them over the years ” they are young” , too many injuries. The truth since the days of Viera, Pires, Campbell , the quality of the players at Arsenal has been declining. We have been to mask it to get away with for many years. There is no where to hide anymore. I wrote 4 years ago that the situation has to really bad before real change comes to Arsenal.
Having watched Wenger since his Monaco days, he only won the league in France once before coming to Arsenal. He was always content finishing in the top 4 or 5. He then came to Arsenal and starting winning titles. My view is that Wenger is satisfied with playing pretty football, there is no hunger to win every year.
He is a great football coach, he has a great football mind, but IMO something is Missing.
@Gunfest
It’s too bad Gunny, but you may be right.
and yes, something is missing.
Any doubt as to the competence of the manager? He is a total disgrace,an embarrassment to a club of arsenals stature and history and i loved the stick the fans gave him. We must force this fool out otherwise there is no game plan, no tactical awareness and no hope for us the fans.
(yawn)
arsenal players need to wake up. They need to play with the hunger that teams like man united and city have. They need to play with the fear of loosing that they show in the last five minutes, in the whole game. Mr wenger needs to stop being complacent(with all due respect) and add in players that have high quality like benzema. Players that hunger for success. Our boys have become used to being less than the best and are happy about it. They are loosing supporters. And loosing them fast. I wish they would wake up. Van paersies missed chance and rosickys missed chance just shows how complacent the boys are. Nothing comes on a silver platter. Blood sweat and tears.
Why the hell does everything have to be black and white with some people? Wenger’s either a fool or he’s a genius.. Arsenal are either great or they are terrible.. It’s a loss to ManU. Yes it hurts. Yes the first half was poor. Yes. Both goals came from the fullback areas where we have injuries and haven’t bought. Yes. Wenger took off the Ox when we can’t understand why (though apparently he was getting cramps) but how does this become proof of Wenger is destroying our club, the sky is falling on our heads etc etc.. It was a game of fine margins cos we had the chances to win it too. Take the rough with the smooth. And yes to those that thought I’d lost my head, I say again.. Wenger and the board are ahead of the curve. Ahead of the times. We operate in a different way because of that. Maybe we should look at Liverpool. No new stadium, still went bankrupt, out of the top 4, bring back an old ‘King’, spend 100 million and still they are worse than the supposedly shitty Arsenal. Get some perspective. Spending money is no guarantee of things being any better anyway.
We aren’t going to dominate like we did 8 years ago because it isn’t our god given right. With the billions thrown around, you can choose to join the rush or stand on your own. I don’t see it as a sign of ambition to run your club into the ground on the chase for some shiny silverware.
Regarding what we lack. Well our injury record really isn’t good. Maybe other clubs get the same number of injuries too but really we seem to get all of them in the same position. Which puts unbelievable pressure on the rest of the squad. What we lack is another goalscorer. I really really want Wenger to buy a striker. Also, I’d like a creative midfielder, either of whom can also play wide. Everywhere else I think we are fine, except for the obvious fullback crisis.
@shard – thanks for injecting some reason and sanity into the debate. Some of the comments are ridiculous – how can our most successful ever manager be a ‘disgrace to the history of the club’?What fucking planet are you from? He is part of our history. History is now, it’s yesterday and it is 19 years without a trophy which is what we have endured in our ‘illustrious’ history.
Things are bad, and I am not saying Wenger is above criticism but to me I still think he deserves respect. Fair enough everyone has a right to an opinion and the right to air it in the way they think best but to call him a disgrace and an embarrassment is pathetic.
@ Shard and Terry
Respect and restraint are called fo no doubt and there are some off the scale reamarks here to be sure.
On the other hand coach Wenger himself says this morning that he has no plans to enter the transfer market as he has players coming back.
Do we not also ALWAYS have players going out, players under performing and players out of position? What planet pray-tell is our esteemed manager on?
Really guys, sometimes stubborn works sometimes it just foolish. I wish either one of you would tell me you agree and that the team is in no need of further, quality additions.
Friends,
Surely nobody is surprised about whats happening.
I wrote back in August we wouldnt qualify for the CL because basically we dont have the quality in the squad.
I dont normally single out individuals but can someone tell me why walcott continues to get a game when he is absolutely useless.
It is awful to watch a club we love slipping gradually into mediocrity- RVP, Wilshire, Ramsay next to go as they will not want to play alongside some the crap in the squad.
Wenger must take some responsibility but as supporters we must demand the board give some explanation regrading the clubs finances- why did Kronke buy the club- obviously not for the benefit of Arsenal but to siphon money out. How much have we brought in through selling our best players and charging the highest ticket prices in the premiership.
We must start having a go at the board – we now know what MU and Liverpool fans suffer through american parasite owners.
I feel so sad yet resigned to a constant downward spiral- I just dont see any light at the end of the tunnel.
Sandy
@leftcoast
I’ve been saying for quite a few weeks now I think we need a striker who can also play wide preferably, and another attacking midfielder. Do I hope we get them? Of course.. But I also think Wenger isn’t purposely spoiling the club’s chances of getting in the top 4, and I don’t think he’s daft. If anything his knowledge of football is greater than all of ours combined. I’m sure he too hopes he can get some players. But wanting a player and getting him are two different things. Besides. Won’t a player be put off coming to a club where the ‘fans’ react that way? Honestly, I had brushed it aside at the time, but the more I think about it, the more disgusting it seems to me. There was no call for that, and as much as a ‘poor’ substitution can be blamed, I think it was the reaction which took away our momentum. It is destructive and self defeating. Unless of course the purpose becomes to undermine the team, in the vague ‘hope’ that something will change. What exactly needs to change, no one knows. So they call the manager names, call the board names, blame everyone else and behave like spoilt children basically because they dont get the shiny toys that the other boys in the rich neighbourhood get. In the end, the root of the argument I feel is the self-sustaining model versus the billionaire ‘funded’ model. Personally I prefer the former, despite the frustrations that come with it. I fully see the risks that Arsenal face, but I think the potential risks of the other way aren’t apparent until it is too late, and I would rather not take that risk.
Again, let me say, Wenger makes mistakes. Maybe a lot of them. But Arsenal will be hard pressed to find a better manager. Sure, someone like Mourinho could come in and given adequate funding will win you titles in the short term. But he’ll destroy the youth structure, the future, while maybe winning you those 5-6 trophies. Thankfully, we’ll never be getting Mourinho. The point is long term concerns and short term concerns have to be balanced. In the here and now, maybe it can do with a little adjustment. But not by much.
In the meantime, fans can equate spending money with spending on transfers all they want, but that isn’t how it works. Nor how it should. People who boo their team like that don’t deserve a good team anyway. It’s shameful.
@Shard
As always you make strong, well thought out points way above the plain of some of the knee-jerk stuff seen about recently. But honestly, you cannot blame the fans. The team is off form and often poorly prepared. Perhaps it’s fair to say we shouldn’t expect more against Man-U but Swansea, Fulham, Blackburn,Aston Villa,Stoke,Bolton?
We have 8 losses a little more than halfway through and the play of the team is not only sub-par it’s not getting any better.
Surely the fans who are paying more and more every season for less and less have the right to vent more than just their billfolds,purses and piggybanks.
It’s important to remember at the end of the day our funds come from the fans and not the board or the wealthy ownership. They are there to MAKE money only the supporters come to the table on a spend-only basis.
Last but not least, shameful performances are booed not only by Arsenal fans but rather it is a world-wide occurrance. If players expect to play for a crowd ANYWHERE that won’t express it’s dislike for a string of poor, losing results good luck it finding it. It’s been my experience that such a gathering does not exist.
Just as we must support the team we have,so must the team perform for the fans they have. And oh, by the way pay to see them.
leftcoast
When the booing occurred, the score was 1-1 against the Champions. It wasn’t a crap performance. I can and will most definitely blame the ones who booed for having a lack of fortitude, a lack of perspective and a complete lack of sense. What does it achieve? Let’s all just assume that Arsene Wenger has lost it because that makes it easier for us to understand the complexities of modern day football. Or rather that excuses us from having to understand.
I am not disputing the right of the fans, paying or not, to boo. But being right is different from having the right. It is disgraceful, and honestly, those fans deserve all the frustration the team gives them. You cannot bemoan the players and the board making money rather than caring for the club, while at the same using money as the argument which gives you more of a right over the club. It doesn’t work both ways. I for one will never agree to the argument about how the paying public is always right. I know I follow the team for the football. I go to as many matches as I can, which isn’t very many because I live half a world away. Even if I live close by, I will go for the matches I can afford or want to spend on. That money is money spent on myself. I don’t hold it as a gift to anyone but myself. Don’t pay if you don’t like what you see. Criticism has its place, and I accept that not all criticism will be constructive. There are times I shout abuses at our players from in front of the tv. But really. ManU come to town, and the folks cant be bothered to show that we stand united in adversity? And they expect better from the team? And if someone says oh they get payed x amount of money that is a)besides the point, b) Arsenal aren’t the ones responsible for the crazy salaries that footballers get, and c) I thought we dont want just mercenaries. Yet we gauge players’ contributions on the basis of the money?
I understand disappointment. Believe me. I’ve faced a lot of it. I don’t understand the hyperbolic reactions where any event that occurs is a burning bush showing how I was correct after all. A win against ManU doesn’t make us great, a loss doesn’t make us shit. Oh and I can’t be bothered to go over all the games you mentioned, but no doubt we’ve played badly at times. Also no doubt we have been robbed by referees many times. That is not excuse making. It is what it is.
As always some good points.
but we obviously don’t”Stand United” as you say. Goonerism is a diverse phenomenon that occurs across the globe and to and with a wide range of people and is by no means a monlithic bloc. When Ox came off for Arshavin (the instantaneous catalyst for the booing but by no means the root cause) I was baffled but did not boo. I figure coach Arsene doing what he has done for a living and being placed where he is has every advantage over me in making the switch. I personally think, (I have been wrong once or twice in the past see Denilson,Almunia,Reyes at al.) That the crowd is sick of Mr. Arshavin and the manager’s deciscion to stick with him despite his constant( do you deny it is constant?) lack of high level performances. Yes, I know there are reasons why but after a while it becomes innane.
Clearly the boos signify that the fans (at the Emirates) want change. Is this the best way to bring the changes they want about? No. Do they have any other forums to express their desire for change in a way that reaches the intended recipient? Not many if any.
We are in the decline. It is reverseable and not inevitable. However decline and defeat bring out discontentment and when the same things are done with the same poor results this gives way to booing. I won’t join in but I do see the rationale though again you are right in regards to its productivity. In the end it is only cathartic and serves very little other purpose. It will however spread and get louder if the team don’t win and darn soon. That is also just the way it is.
You’re right. And just like I bemoan the way it is with referees, I also bemoan the way it is with some people. Incidentally, I also bemoan the way it is with Arsenal’s team at times. In all cases, I try to understand it. Some I do, some I don’t, others I just don’t agree with. The fact remains that even you see the logic behind booing at an abstract level, yet say you won’t do it. I think it hurts the team, and causes any rift to grow. It does nothing good. I see the logic. But I think its wrong. I see the emotion in it. I think that’s wrong too.
Oh and Arsenal actually have a much more open interaction with fans than most other clubs. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of any team’s CEO spending an hour and a half answering questions from the equivalent of the AST. Also, I know that they hold fairly regular meetings with some other organisations like the AISA, and fans have actually been able to get across not just their concerns, but also offer suggestions.
@Shard
Could not agree more.
On to the FA cup good Sir as always…
COYG!!!!
The fans have to take a lot of the blame as well because we have given wenger too much power. I’v noticed since last season that he has become arrogant and thats not a good sign.
The positive on the game must be ox, well done young man, BUT i wish his advisers and him a lot of luck because wenger’s record with developing english players is nothing short of shocking ask theo, i just hope wenger doesn’t spoil this kid.
The so called big player Vermaelen was culpable on more than one occasion yesterday, YET people are angry with ashavin (played out of position) Who out jumped Who to score the first goal ???and shockingly all of our starting defenders are full internationals, so some of the mistakes made makes you just shake your head.
At present this team is not a top 4 team maybe they will improve as the season goes on but for now that’s a fact, a lot more games to go so good luck guys, lets try harder.
wenger i wish you never leave this club, as henry said you have a job for life
the same henry who left your project to win trophies at a next club, does he know that since he left we have won nothing (hypocrite) at least scholes never left united for some other trick.
Don’t go wenger stay for ever your the only manager that can manage Arsenal
and the fans no nothing were all idiots you know best. I hope you stay for a next 10 years, wenger this club will self destruct with out you
It is laughable to insinuate That the fans were responsible for the lost .
Wenger made some horrible decisions in the last few years that made me question his suitability to remain as the Arsenal manager.
1- bringing a Manu reject Sylvestre to Arsenal was a disaster
2- Squilacci was not even a first team player with Lyon, he is not at the level required not even for a team in last place of the EPL.
3- Going into this season knowing that he didn’t have a cover for Song,RVP
4- We didn’t have a cover for the departure of Nasri or Fabregas
Last time I checked Smalling was bought from a lower division team By Manu.
Van der Vart cost Spurs less than 10million ,these examples show it is not always about money, it is about who you spend it on. We have plenty of players who are collecting wages but not productive.
It is time for a change at the top. I give you 3 names could be great replacements for Wenger: Laurent Blanc, Didier Deschamps, Rudy Garcia
Before Wenger came to Arsenal most of our fans didn’t know if Arsene was a French chef or a French actor… So the club should always be bigger than the “man” even if respect for all he has done for the club and all the glory he has brought us. It is time to move on!!!
Really interesting stuff on the blog at the moment, we may not have the best team, but we certainly have knowledgable supporters. I will stand behind Wenger, the man has given me a huge amount of pleasure over the years. I know he has made mistakes, the biggest one probably not getting Scharwzer when we desperately needed a keeper. Maybe not so good recently but you can’t accuse him of not picking up bargain buys Anelka, Pires, Petit, Vieira, Henry Ljunberg. Where he has not been so hot is when he has spent big money, Reyes’ Arshavin etc. I know Henry was expensive but what a bargain
I think this may eventually be the downfall of him, especially if our North London rivals were to win at the Emirates. I do still believe they will get a nose bleed though
there’s a lot of stuff on the bloggs this morning about wenger actually lieing about the xo substituton. Some quote the ox as saying that he wasn’t ill during the week and he wasn’t fatigued, if this is true and its only if then wer’e in more sh*t than i thought, becuase this would make the debate on who is lauding the money, the board or the manager a very serious issue. Many have said its the board BUT i don’t buy that for one second.
I just hope that wenger did not lie to our very faces about sunday because if that’s the case its very sad very sad indeed………..
Gunfest wish there were many like you but wenger over the last seven years been brainwashing the fans into believing there was potential into his call debutants,but who going to stop wenger if he is in control of financial statements n team plan .so much rubbish players that its impossible to get rid,in wenger we rust
Gunfest wish there were many like you but wenger over the last seven years been brainwashing the fans into believing there was potential into his call debutants,but who going to stop wenger if he is in control of financial statements n team plan .so much rubbish players that its impossible to get rid off,in wenger we rust
@Kel
I am not wanting to get into a slanging match with you but when you say Wenger is increasingly arrogant I see completely the reverse. I mean the guy seems to have aged ten years over the last three or four seasons. I see a guy who the club are prepared to take all the flak for team performances, club finances and just about everything to do with how the club is run. I see a guy who feels every loss/mistake/poor performance deeply. I see someone who is loyal to his players and his club and is desperate to get us back up to the top level. The way some of you guys talk he is on some kind of deliberate mission to run the club into the ground.
As I have said earlier I don’t think he is above criticism – but some of this talk is bizarre. And as for the stuff about ” I know a bloke who knows a bloke who knows someone in the Arsenal tea room who reckons Ox-C was not sick, tired and/or injured” – give me a break. Lets leave the conspiracy theories to quality english press shall we?
And sorry but the stuff about how he has not developed English talent would be laughable if it does not actually get to the root of some of this bilge – Wenger has always been treated differenty because he is not English. You say he has not developed these players and then cite only Theo as an example. Well I would argue that Theo has not developed into the player he should be because he is probably just not good enough. God knows he has been given enough chances. But what does it matter where the player comes from? Are you saying he did not develop Henry? Or Viera? Or Kolo Toure? Or Fabregas? Or Nasri? Or Pires? Or Bergkamp? Or Sagna? Or Song? Or Wilshire? I could go on and on.
I am not saying we don’t have problems – in fact his biggest failing has not been fixing up that defense three years go and sticking with a useless goalkeeper. We blew a serious chance at the title at least two of those seasons because of that. Now we have a squad that seems weaker for whatever reason and a period of rebuilding is under way Whether Wenger is the right man for that I am undecided. If he does stay though I hope the club back him up with some funds for the players we need (not many I would argue) and a stronger assistant than Pat Rice.
Shard,
You know Iv great respect for you.
Last 12 vs Utd w1 d2 l9. Thats alot of nose rubbing and hurt Il think you can agree.
You came on here recently asking why it has to be black and white with a portion of gunners fans, yet when I read your constant ultra defense of Wenger you bring the argument to just that, you love Wenger the gloomers must hate him. Not true.
You show your frustration indirectly, you openly accept the managers deflection upon referees, decisions, pitches and opposition tactics. Thats how you vent and I v come to learn to respect that although I disagree and feel if your good enough these things cant influence the result…excuses are just, wel, an excuse, but things that are within your control to influence your own destiny, well that comes with a responsibility.
Your treating sundays events like an isolated incident, a knee jerk irrational unfounded act of selt defeatism which counteracted a fightback at 1-1. Well it wasnt.
Utd destroyed us first half, we looked like the away team, bottom half away team at that. The reality is that the ticket payer has seen this for the last four seasons at least….poor tactics, poor team selection, poor sustitions and what sorely appears to be poorly motivated players at times.
I get that Arshavins welcome wasnt gonna motivate, but what does motuvate this guy and how many times has the season tickef holder held his tongue in this regard?
How long must the paying fan watch Diabys Almunias Squillachis Denilsons Djourous and Bendtners? They are still contracted to us cos nobody will have them, these were the guys bought/ renewed to replace the adebayours gallas toures cescs nasris clichys and going back further vieiras and petits henrys and coles and overmars.
It was that build up and the failure of the club to show the ambition required to stave off decline that triggered that reaction from the stands…taking off our biggest threat and replacing it with what every man and his dog knew was an underwhelming liability who doesnt care and doesnt hide it.
The club is in decline and its been coming, you elect to blame City and Chelsea Pool and Utd but we have taken in near 70M from City the last 3 years, weve takin nearly 90M off barce since the Petit/ Overmars sales….is it their fault we choose not to re-strengthen when there was value like V d Vaart and Scott Parker to be had?
We have lost our best players and can no longer attract the big names even if we wanted.
We have a squad of promise but no-one knows how to get that win when it counts…maybe in part its because they know the manager will blame something else and in turn the fans will believe the manager. Wel that day is gone.
Like Iv said, and you know it to be true, I have great respect for you, a true fan, but you are setting standards that I deem to be beyond any informed fan at any given club.
The ticket holder has reached boiling point….where we go from here I dont know. But I know Van Persie wont be enough to see us to fourth and the reality is hes our only hope of scoring.
Tough times ahead…gooner for life!
@Shambo
It’s tuesday afternoon here in the states. The sun has come back out and the surf is looking big and burely.I’m starting to get over the miserable weekend.
Thank’s for ruining my day. I mean what hurts more than the truth from a friend.
Still, I think we can win this Sunday.
Gooner faith dies hard.
@lefty,
Jeez sorry bro…but thats some perpective you v just given…get out and enjoy that surf man…everything Arsenal is out of our hands!
We should win at the weekend….youd like to see some pride aswel. Heres hopin!
@ Terry
so let me get this straight you don’t want to know if wenger lied or not??? about the ox??? i really want to know. To use bad tactic, and bad transfer is one thing BUT adding lies to that is totally going over board
All am saying mate is this, if you made a mistake then just say so people will respect you more but if you lie and they find out then they can’t trust you.
List of english failures (walcott(so far), pennant, hoyte, bently, wilshire has done well but lest see how he goes) and i can add a few more to that list. Now don’t get me wrong but wenger has developed some great talents but some of the names you mentioned were already seasoned players when they came, and for all that worked out the list of failures are about 5 times more i not dare mentioned all of them, it’s a shame.
and to compound my argument, 90% of the problems arsenal have at the moment have been self -inflicted every one has injuries so that should not be an excuse.
BUT that’s my view and i respect yours as well, and there is still time to get this sorted out, really hope he does, for his sake.
i’ll tell you this, some months ago i mentioned on this very same blog wengers record in france, and i was ridicule for it but i’ll tell you what, i stand by it for sure, any of you dare take a look at wegers record with monaco and see if it doesn’t mirror arsenal and i must say the ending of his time there wasn’t that good at all…….
Shamboo I do agree with you 100%, we have been on downward slide for at least 6 years. Only knowledgeable fans like you would see that…I am convinced that the reason why Henry left for Barcelona, he could see all around him world class players who left , not being replaced by players of the same caliber.
He was not going to win the CL with Arsenal.
The youth policy that Wenger had a few years ago was bound to fail. I could understand if he went and bought the one of the top 3 young players at each positions , no we had Senderos, Denilson, Bendtner, Diaby, Walcott , just to name a few…some of them might be good , but not world class players Fabregas was the exception .
There was a time when Wenger had the pick top French players to himself, Italian,Spanish and English teams were going and spending millions on
young talents there. Therefore he had to adapt to the new reality and he has failed to do so despite finishing in the top 4.
This year we were destroyed by manure, shredded by city, dominated by Swansea
Hey Shambo.. How’s it going with the young ‘un?
Look if the argument is Arsenal are no longer the force we were, then I already said that I think. We’re not. It won’t be that way because Arsenal have changed AND because football has changed. It isn’t about blame. That’s the difference. I don’t blame ManCity, Chelsea etc.. I don’t blame Arsenal either. It’s just the way things are at the moment. We can argue about the little decisions all we want, but in terms of the larger strategy, I don’t disagree with the direction the club has taken. You can argue it’s outdated, I think it is forward thinking. If all clubs go down that path, sure it’s easier to follow and hope for the best, but to build our own stadium, and do it with our own resources..That takes planning and courage. Is it the ‘smart’ thing to do? I would say yes, despite the current frustrations it causes. I do not want Arsenal to be a sheikh’s plaything. If nothing else, a club loses some part of its identity. But apart from that. It’s risky in the extreme, and a potential recipe for ultimate disaster.
Also, the thing with money is..Spending money doesn’t necessarily win you trophies. If it is JUST about the money, then ManCity win that battle all the time because they have an entire nation’s oil wealth backing them. What would win us things is more money combined with the things we already do well. But bringing in a sugar daddy has the potential to upset our current good points. Will a sugar daddy be patient enough to deal with the growing pains of bringing through young players? Will any manager that he appoints, being under pressure for immediate results be willing to scout for gems and bring through youth, or just go with proven stars? Going by general patterns I would say it goes back to being only a competition of the wallet, which not only doesn’t guarantee victory, but almost certainly guarantees that your short term desires overrule your long term concerns every time, and when the shit is about to hit the fan, the sugar daddy can always leave the club.
Besides..Why do you think these rich people buy football clubs? Is it to throw away money out of their love for football? I seriously doubt that, because rich people don’t get rich that way. Basically you only see them putting in money, but they must be getting something out of it which has nothing to do with football. But that’s something I guess is a little beyond this discussion.
Ok what else.. my ultra defense of Wenger and the gloomers must hate him… OK. Have you EVER once seen me typecast people into AKB’s or AMG’s or any other fancy acronym? I hate doing that, and I don’t think like ‘oh you’re a gloomer’ etc.. It makes no sense because it reduces the person to just one viewpoint. Which is never true. So I don’t think there is anyone who is a ‘gloomer’. And I’d like to think I’m not an AKB 🙂
Why I love Wenger is because of what he’s done for Arsenal football club. Also why I love him is the way he conducts himself. Forget the media image of a whinging, lying, paranoid, arrogant, semi-senile Frenchman. I think he conducts himself with amazing dignity. He is a very principled man, and he’s humble. I think in every way he’s a credit to Arsenal.
As to why I defend him the way I do..firstly because I don’t look to blame anyone for the way things are, but rather to understand them. But mostly, my ultra defense stems from the ultra abuse, undeserved reputation that the media gives him and what most people seem to echo. I’m sorry, but in a situation of conflicting version of events between the media and Wenger, I believe our manager every time. Maybe that is naive, but going by their track record, I am correct in that assumption.
That isn’t to say Wenger doesn’t make mistakes. Of course he does. I don’t think he’s perfect, nor do I expect it. I agree the wages of players like Diaby, Bendtner, etc are problematic and can be classified as a mistake. Why did that mistake occur though. I think you can look at it and say that we messed up by paying on the basis of potential rather than achievements. But the other way to look at it is that we were trying to get the best youth players together to make into a team. So we paid them more than they would get elsewhere. Which for a whole team reached a similar level to the other top teams, but saved us on superstar transfer fees. I guess the idea was to have a team rather than superstar players. Was that wrong? Not exatly, even though it didn’t work out. Firstly cos of the constraints of cash flow during the early stadium years. But also, that team of young men got ever so close to winning the title in 2008.
Now here is the thing. here’s where we disagree. You think nothing else can make a difference as long as we are good enough? I think that is expecting your team to be perfect all the time. Things don’t work that way. Referees can and do influence results, whether it is through mistakes or otherwise, but they do. And anytime they do, it’s a sad moment for the sport. Believe me..I would get upset of Arsenal were awarded a penalty we didn’t deserve. That has been blunted a bit in past years because of what the refereeing has been like in our matches. I’m sorry, but there is no objective way to look at it without saying the referees have been crap for Arsenal the past few seasons. That isn’t to say it’s the only reason..but it’s been a contributing factor to our losses and even poor performances…How huge a factor..that’s debatable.
Also, of course the manager deflects with the opposition, the pitch. Though he rarely talks about the referees, not half as much as he rightfully could.. I take it as such. I don’t hate him for it. I don’t hold it against him. Also, I don’t assume that what he says to the media in one instant is necessarily what he’s thinking or what he feels like in general.
This turned out longer than I thought so just let me say I fully understand the frustrations. With the board, with Wenger, with the players. But I do not think it justifies turning on the club the way some people have. It’s a little arrogant of me, but I think people aren’t necessarily thinking for themselves. Probably because they aren’t stopping to think. Just going with an emotional response which is hyperbolic. Ultimately, I think its an argument of self-sustainability vs the billionaire model.. Everything else is an offshoot of that. Which doesn’t mean we can’t do better within the model we have chosen because we can. I’m just more sympathetic because its a plan that was made pre-Abramovich, and has had to be constantly tweaked under changing circumstances.
WOW THAT WAS LONG…. Sorry 🙂
No top team will tolerate his folly nor will he last long at any major top side in Europe not even Japan will take his crap. You need to stop deluding yourself no one wants him. Wenger is not working under any restriction that is his illusion for failure. AOC, Ramsey are shipped in as the young lads are shipped out. I would have kept Hoyt than the ineptor. Nico has the ability to take this position even from Sagna if ever given 90+ mins run outs. Meads is better than Miquel. The ineptor was single-handedly responsible for the mancity goal watch the footage again letting Aguero have free a passage and not marking or tracking him at the 83 min and again was so poor he had to be taken off. Hoyt, the defender at QPR among others should not have left the club. I said wenger will not buy a single player and come summer Bendtner may come back and Denilson, Watt, Joel C and Wellington will all come back and wenger will again say I have young strong team. With the likes of Batty Al, Sicky Abu, ineptor, Squilly, the gitt, Wonker, the invisible force from Asia, and the reggae man who cant see the goal he will say I have a full team that can win and put on a fake smile. Wenger has money but did not buy Cahill for 7Mil, Ben Turner at Sunderland another no nonsense player old school type give or take 4-6 Mil, So wenger is the root cause. Who will want to buy these deadwood lot? sandy left for free and even Moyes had to chuck him out. They will wait until their time is up. Talk about saving money buying cheap nasty things that no one wants like him. From here who can replace wenger should not be the issue is how to terminate him ASAP should be the talk and more of Ewood mentality. The agreement should be arsenal free from Arsene and no more failures!!!
I’ve seen worse periods than this under Don Howe and Terry Neill, let alone the season before Rioch when we looked like we’d be relegated for a spell. But for a team that buckles under any sort of pressure, does not work hard, has such brittle confidence and cannot carry out the basic defensive tasks,this is the worst I can recall over the last few years. Poor buys, limited, if any tactical nous or ability to change things, wrong substitutions, playing individuals who refuse to play for each other but still get picked, is down to the manager. Money these days is hard to come by and if the team at least tried, I would not have any qualms about going as often as I used to- about 15 times a season. In recent seasons, however, the team has disrespected its fans more often than not. I might as well throw £50-60 or more down the drain for the amount of pleasure. let alone effort they’ve provided on many match days. Wenger should go if he has any decency left in him- as his terrible performances are now embarrassing. He is now as clueless as Graham and Mee in their last days and to say this is all down to lack of money being sanctioned by the Board is naive. Do they coach the team, did they buy Squillachi Mertesacker, Park or Santos? Did they keep Almunia in goal for years? Did they reward rubbish like Diaby, Bendtner, Denilson and Rosicky so they are now finding it impossible to shift? We’ve got some glory seekers as supporters, but that is not why we are ten points behind Spurs and seem unlikely to qualify for the Champions League. Yes, we’ve got lots to be grateful to Wenger for, but allowing the likes of Fulham and Swansea to out battle us without kicking us is not the sort of thing that should be happening to a top club.Maybe we’re not a top club any more and that is primarily down to the manager, full stop.
Arsenal Football Club has been quick to get Van Persie to deny any conflicts with Wenger this morning- what a surprise! Wenger made a crass decision and then lamely tried to justify it. We have stories spun about how tired OC was, how he had been ill during the week and how he had a sore calf. By all accounts, OC has denied all of those in after-match interviews. When asked why he ( correctly) substituted Djourou, this normally articulate manager of ours stumbled over his words for a while and then mumbled something about a slight hamstring strain, which again no-one bought. I’ve very rarely been at a match where a mood of rising optimism was crushed instantly as it was.The players and crowd were stunned and as the man in front of me said ” I bet he decided that before the match”, which is par for the course with Wenger. For those saying “don’t panic and stop over- reacting”, I say go and follow a team that strives for mediocrity, that is not what Arsenal Football club is about and hasn’t been certainly since the mid 1980′s at least.For those who say respect Wenger for his past achievements, does he respect the fans? This is the individual who reacts with fury when he has faced shareholders, who has lied about making small needed investments to take us over the finishing line. A man who does not think he’s accountable to anyone. Someone who has kept dross at the club for years, who has neglected the defence for seasons and only spends money on bad or average players after the utter humiliation of an 8-2 defeat. A team that does not show consistent fight, hunger, commitment and surrenders meekly when average sides like Fulham and Swansea do.I hope that those near the dug-out continue to tell him how they feel- maybe then this has-been will finally get the message.
@shard you dunce stop making petty excuses for the clubs failings for 7 years. Its idiots like you who have backed the clueless manager, who dont forget is on 7 =mill a year – what the f has done to justify that salary? I tell you what he has done…NOTHING. The tossers at the top dont give a shit as long as their pockets are full and muppets like you have no clue about the game so follow the apologists.
OMG!!! I’s already 2012 and all of Arsenal failings are due to the referee….Freaking unbelievable. But still we shouldn’t boo the manager, not the right thing to do, just saying.
I admit that was long laninja..but you obviously didn’t read through it well enough.. Or you are purposely misrepresenting what I said..Just saying..
@calins
Yes.calling me names strengthens your argument so much. And Wenger’s salary figure quoted in the posts I’ve read over here has gone up with every loss apparently. It was 5 million a year ago. Then 6. Now 7. How many contracts has he signed in the last year? Just goes to show people will rely on simplistic, and even meaningless figures, just as a means of getting themselves and others angry.
@Alvin
Any basis to suggest those players that you say are better than the existing lot are actually better? No statistics? Not even youtube videos? Yet you know best obviously.
@ paul
For a team that doesn’t show ANY fight or hunger, and that brought in crap players at the end of August, they’ve done quite well to maintain the gap with the top teams haven’t they? It was 12 then, it’s 15 now. Near championship form, despite the crapness.
More and more.. I just get the sense people don’t know what THEY are talking about. Give me a proper argument which takes into account all the aspects, and in the balance suggests Wenger should go, and I’ll agree. As of now..It’s just what we are missing that is focussed on and exaggerated. Which doesn’t take into account what we have. Wanting more is well and fine..but didn’t Charlton want more when they sacked whatshisname… Curbishley.. We’re not Charlton obviously.. though to hear some of you, we are worse.. Sheesh.. Why do you guys watch football? Seriously..
Spuds @ home This match here will be the turning point.
I watched a very average Manure team score and slice through Arsenal whenever they felt like it. It was shocking Shocked
The week before that of course, we all watched in horror as Swansea tore Arsenal apart. With consummate ease.
This group of disparate mercenaries have proved that they have absolutely no class, no pride and no resilience.
Manure took it easy on us today.
Modric, Lennon and Bale are going to be far faster, and far more ruthless. Considering the state of dross we have this could be a battering, and I think it is going to prove to be Wenger’s watershed.
Watching Welbeck, Evra and Giggs Shocked destroy Arsenal was unbelievable.
If Giggs could do that to Alex Song (what a clown he is) and co, then just imagine the treats in stoore from Modric and Bale?
Wenger is finished. That much is clear.
A sad end to what should have been a superb reign. He will now be remembered as nothing more than a Loser and a laughing stock.
@shard- are u bloody insane?
Shard
I dont post that often , but I stand with you on this. Sure its frustrating not winning anything for 7 years, but football is getting more and more money driven. Unless an Oligath (or whatever they are called) comes forward the likes of Aston villa, Derby , Nottingham Forest or Blackburn who were the last smaller sides ti be successfull will ever get to the top again, In that time Arsenal have maintained a top 4 status, built a fantastic new stadium and remained a financially viable institution. Imagine supporting Portsmouth or Palace and going into administration every week
I know the Middle East very well and its not unusual for Sheiks to become bored with projects, when you have daily oil revenues of $200 million you can afford to throw money around and get bored with non performing assets. Also Abu Dhabi have Dubai spending money they probably dont have and ahve to bail them olut on a regular basis. I also wonder how long Abramovoch will continue to fund chelsea If there backers walked away I fear for City and Chelsea.
Any credibility I may have will probably get shot to pieces now, but am I the only person to believe thst if Disby could remsin fit he wouldn’t be a bad palyer?
some very valid points in the above few posts and to be honest how can we expect so much from players who are being played out of position by the stupid manager? Before Arshavin came to Arsenal, he had spent his entire career playing a central attacking position for Zenit St. Petersburg. He was always the star player and was never counted on to play in a defensive role. He was the creator and he was very good at it. At 28 years of age he was brought to a new league and placed in an unfamiliar role where he was expected to track back every time Arsenal lost possession. He was suddenly not involved in every possession like he was accustomed to. This was not a teenage kid who was still learning the game; this was an experienced player who was in the prime of his career, taken out of his best position and asked to fun more than he ever had to before, and seeing the ball less and less. While the effort surely was not always there for the player (and admitted in interviews that he hated training) he has made efforts to track back and help out defensively. We have argued his merits on the squad ad nausea on this blog, but one thing we can certainly agree on is expecting him to be an effective defender is an absurd notion. It’s not his game and never will be, no matter how hard he tries. Arshavin genuinely tried on the game-winning goal by Welbeck, and I struggle to blame a player for failing to live up to a standard that was always asking more than his skill set could continually provide. Players can out perform for a while, but the liability remains as long as he is asked to do so.
This isn’t reserved to players out of position either. For instance, Robin van Persie is a magician with the ball at his feet, but when the defenders lump the ball to the centre circle you can hardly expect him to win the ball in the air against Vidic, Terry and other dominate defenders. Expecting Theo Walcott to beat players without space to run into is always going to turn into disappointment. Criticizing Per Mertesacker for losing a foot race to the speedy Welbeck from half is harsh when we all know he has the foot speed of a beached whale. I appreciate Aaron Ramsey’s work rate, but his decision-making is poor and he needs more time to shoulder the workload that was merely given to him by Fabregas’ departure, not by his own merit.
Where I get frustrated with players is not completing plays that are well within the bounds of expectation. Alex Song should not be beaten over and over in the middle of the pitch, Denilson should have the awareness to understand players are moving outside of his vision, and fullback have to know that to be two feet behind the centre backs is asking for trouble (Hi Gael Clichy!). Watching van Persie stand three feet from the ball and not even attempt to force the player into an uncomfortable pass drives me mad, as does Theo Walcott’s newfound lack of effort if the ball is not inch perfect for him. Watching Koscielny and Mertesacker force a highline when van Persie decides to ball watch and not pressure is absolute madness and where I get extremely annoyed.
It comes down to tactics. When you are forced to player centre backs as your fullbacks, you cannot ask Djourou to defend the whole flank himself like Sagna does. He needs protection. Vermaelen naturally drifts to the centre of the pitch when attacking and makes the left incredibly narrow, so expecting him to provide width like Santos and Gibbs is naïve. A manager needs to be adaptable and change the squad and instruct his team in how do deal with these limitations. Since the eradication of Arsenal fullbacks, nothing has changed in the team approach. Fullbacks are left on their own against players that will eventually take advantage. Why is there no direction to assist Djourou? The build up play is left too narrow because no one is providing the width. Where is the in-game management? It took Alex Ferguson three minutes to throw Valencia on at right back and exploit the weakness that is Arshavin’s defending and Arsenal did absolutely nothing to help him out. Time and time again Arsenal are set out to play one way and if it doesn’t work, nothing changes. Players are expected to fit a formation and a specific theory of football, no matter which position they are in. Everyone remembers Andrei Arshavin playing centre forward and how successful that was. Nicklas Bendtner, Tomas Rosicky and Emmanuel Eboue have all been played as wingers with the expected results of awfulness.
You cannot put square pegs into round holes and expect it to work and why Arsene Wenger continues to persist in this
o all the fucking window licking spastic c**ts who sit in front of the in Arsene we trust banner, today was for you. For all the fucking sister shagging c**ts in here like retard member the AIDS riddled spurs living C.U.N.T. then today was for you. For all the fucking sheep, the fucking Arsehole Wanker love children then I hope you enjoyed today because you are the cancer which infests this club. You along with the cretin in charge are responsible for this malaise. Sign up for your season tickets for 2013 you poisonous fucking cretinous wenger loving sheep scum c**ts. banghead
No more than a thousand or so singing “You don’t know what you’re doing”, rounded upon by AKBs. I wouldn’t get too excited
As I mentioned before. A scraped 1-0 win against Leeds and its “There’s Only One Arsene Wenger” time
_________________
Arsene doesn’t sign millionaires
sn’t it strange how those ” Wenger to Real” stories mysteriously surface whenever Le Tit is under intense scrutiny hmmmm? Just like when David Dein gave that Football Focus interview! Rolling Eyes
Look people. Arsene Wenger will NEVER join Real. For one their fans don’t rate or want Wenger, a manager who’s won nothing for seven years and never won the CL. Wenger himself would last about five minutes at Real. The minute he comes out with “I’d take second place” his desk will already be cleared!
This is a classic. Wenger is under the cosh and he knows it. So now it’s time to use every trick and contact to take the pressure off. He is so very precious our Dear Leader isn’t he? Why has this ” Wenger to Real” story only surfaced now eh? Is it that Real have seen the last three consecutive Arsenal defeats and decided to make their move! Embarassed
This is all too obvious. This is Wenger’s way of throwing a strop but lets call the egomaniac’s bluff! Go on go to Real. He won’t last two weeks there the pressure to actually WIN and deliver results would be a shock to him.
Still. I expect Red Action will be holding another serenade Mardi Gras parade for Dear Leader in their love Wenger t-shirts, as they did the last time the “Wenger to Real” story somehow resurfaced (when he began to be criticised in public) and a new contract until 2021 will be signed off the back of that
ohn Nicholson form F365 wrote this. It goes to the core of what I have said: the lesson to be learned from this, and this especially goes out to all the AKBs and Wenger-loving cheerleaders, is that every Arsenal manager from now until forevermore, needs to be judged on WHAT THEY WIN.
Never again should anyone be allowed to become bigger than the club. Wenger wouldn’t be such an arrogant turnip if the fans hadn’t elevated him to that status. Lesson needs to be learned here. Mourinho won so much with Chelski but when he stopped delivering he was out the door. That is how it works at big clubs, and how it should work with us from now on….
________________________________
Wenger’s Never Been A Football God…
Wenger doesn’t Know. He never has. It’s not his fault that his supporters have elevated him to a status where having feet of clay is a crushing inevitability. It’s too far to fall…
Last Updated: 23/01/12 at 10:02 Post Comment
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Poor, poor Arsene Wenger. There can be few worse feelings as a manager than having your own fans abusing you for your pitch-side decisions. You must feel like sticking it right up the bracket of your tormentors. All too often fans’ ire at their team’s performance gets turned on their manager. It’s harder to blame 11 players individually than the man in the tramp-like, long padded sleeping-bag coat.
But this is what happens when a manager or indeed a player gets elevated to too high a status. For years those rather patronising ‘Arsene Knows’ signs were displayed as a kind of smug act of faith in his brilliance. It’s always dangerous to assign this kind of special wisdom to anyone, let alone in the world of football. Idols always turn out to have feet of clay.
This faith in Wenger was established when they won those three league titles wins and all those cups. That seems like forever ago now. He was also apparently brilliant because he suggested the idea that players should eat pasta pre-game, as though this dietary knowledge of how carbohydrates work was exclusive to him in the world of football and not already common knowledge on the continent. But, no matter, it was a tremendous period for Arsenal.
The title wins – even though achieved in part with an inherited once-in-a-generation uniformly brilliant defence – of course deserve kudos and respect. However, many managers win titles and are not hailed as a Professorial Genius in the same way. They are not said to ‘Know’ even though they go on to win Champions League titles or other European trophies, which Wenger has been unable to do, so far.
This world of worship wasn’t Wenger’s fault of course. You can’t control how high people elevate you, or how far you will fall in their estimation.
Then we had the curse of The Invincibles. A statistically remarkable performance to be sure but in the wider scheme of things, it has surely distorted expectations. It was too epoch-making. Perhaps, at the end of that purple patch, it actually made Wenger seem better than he was. It added to the Wenger mythology. Which isn’t to say he’s not really good. But you know, he’s not God and never has been.
After all, during the following season Chelsea lost one game and yet ended up with five more points and then lost five and ended up with one point more. So how earth-shattering was that 90-point season really? It depends on how you want to view it.
In subsequent seasons, winning things was replaced by ‘playing the best football’, That was the propaganda anyway and enough fans were happy to believe it. No trophies, but look at the quality of football Wenger had got them playing. After three league titles, success seemed inevitable in the near future. Surely, He Knew. He wouldn’t have got it wrong. But in fact, he had. Just like any other manager.
The trophyless years may well have been full of good passing football but it was elevated too high by some and Wenger with it. It was not the more superior, intelligent and almost moral style that many desperately seemed to want it to be, it was purely an aesthetic choice by Wenger. Other styles of play are available and as it turned out, more successful ones. This isn’t to discredit it as a project but more to set it into context.
Wenger has always enjoyed a good press because he’s articulate and intelligent and his image as a football mastermind has gone unchallenged until recently. Because Arsenal have already lost eight games and seem set to have their worst season since the mid 90s, questions are being asked about him as though his crown has only just slipped.
However, a more sensible long-term reading of the situation would be to say that Wenger has been a superb manager at times, a really good manager always, but not the cream of the crop. If Wenger ‘Knows’ and is a professorial genius that would make Sir Alex Ferguson some sort of all-knowing deity, so dominant over Arsenal has he been, so groaningly massive is their trophy haul in comparison.
Wenger is likeable and interesting and his project for Arsenal over the last five or six years has been a fascinating one, but he has never been as good as his biggest fans said and he’s certainly not now as bad as his biggest critics would like to believe.
I realise saying this is a kind of heresy and as ever I’m sure that merely saying someone isn’t a genius will be read by some as saying ‘that Wenger, he’s sh*t he is’ even though, obviously, that isn’t what I’m saying at all. Indeed, such lack of nuance seems to be at the heart of his current problems.
You can be exceptionally good and still be over-rated and this is what is currently cursing him. Once people lose faith and fall out of love with someone they believed in so much, it will seem as if everything they do is the work of a fool. It is unfair and as the club is likely to finish no lower than sixth at worst, hardly a disastrous season if viewed more rationally.
Wenger doesn’t Know. He never has. This is categorically not a criticism of him – even if some Arsenal fans will be unshakeable in their belief that it is – but of his worshippers who told him, us and themselves that he did and now seek to berate him because now, as ever, he obviously doesn’t.
John Nicholson
So there’s been a few records Wenger has amassed over the past two years.
Last season, Wenger became the first manager in CL history to go a whole 90 minutes without registering a single shot on goal in a CL match. At the Nou Camp. Even Almeria and Bratislava managed this.
Last season, Arsene Wenger became the first manager in PL history to fail to win a match his team were leading 4-0 in.
This season, Wenger continues to add to his Legendaru status:
After Swansea, Arsene Wenger now officially has overseen the worst Arsenal away defensive record at this stage, of any Arsenal manager of the past 50 years. Shocked
Speaking of Swansea, the winner they scored is officially the fastest goal scored straight after an opposition goal, in PL history! Shocked
The Swansea match also added to another record: Arsene Wenger has now officially, ratio wise, become the Top 6 manager to have thrown away the most leads, turned into defeats!!!
Add that to the 8-2 record at OT this season. Yet another record.
Oh and one more too. Blackburn this season was the first time an Arsenal manager had seen his team score three goals to a bottom three side, and lose the match.
In Arsene We Trust
Yikes-O-Rama Gang!
I know it sucks right now but we have been worse.
I”m not asking anybody to like it (I don’t). But, keep some perspective.
@lanija Howdy long-time no hear!
@aaron Nobody denies you the right to rant but pull your language out of the gutter mate it says a lot more about you than the situation.
@shard Holy Cow dude! It’s Leo Told Stoy by Warren Peeze.
Only QPR and Bolton have lost more away games
We have the worst defensive away record in the league bar none
So even ignoring the past, the present is fucking awful enough
Can someone also look up how many league goals have been scored other than by RVP ??? Surely there’s never been such an over reliance statistically on one player either. At least when TH14 was in his pomp we had goalscoring midfielders. Perhaps in GG’s last couple of years of Ian Wright doing the business on his own ?
Awful stats all round.
Still – “real fans have patience” and “who heard of Nasri and Fabregas 4 years ago” – surely the most cringeworthy fucking banners of all time
3 League games Arsenal have lost in a row, their worst run since April 2007
11 Games in which Arsenal have failed to score more than one goal in the league this season (but with Arsene, we play the best football! Embarassed )
7 Number of clean sheets Arsenal have kept in the league this season
0 Players other than Robin van Persie whose goal tally runs into double figures for the Gunners this season Shocked
6 Away games Arsenal have lost, the joint most in the top half of the table alongside Sunderland Shocked
16 Millions of pounds spent on Per Mertesacker and André Santos to bolster the defence last summer (remember though, Arsene does not have the funds to compete from the board)
1 Goals Marouane Chamakh has scored this season. Even Thomas Vermaelen has scored two more
Arsene Knows
@leftcoast
LOL… I know.. I was surprised by just how long that went on.. Apparently I am insane though so that might explain it 🙂
@shard you have no answers. Give up fool. You do not have to spend like Man City and Chelsea to win titles. FACT.
A non-retarded manager, with the resources and funds of AFC, should easily be able to compete each and every year for multiple trophies. FACT.
Arsene Wenger has not put his team in a position to compete for anything but the Mickey Mouse cup. FACT.
And no, we were never in contention for the PL title outside of the 2007 season up until the Eduardo incident. Arsene is so stubborn to prove that HIS ways are the best way to run a team, that he is blinded by the mediocrity that he is placing on the pitch. I won’t even start about all the moronic substitutions and roster decisions he has made.
Wenger out. Period.
lance
We were competing for 4 trophies up till February last season. You can say we are crap cos we don’t win. But it’s wrong to say we don’t compete. If you ask me questions I might have my answers to them. That doesn’t mean I’ll be right, and it doesn’t mean you’ll be wrong. It’s just opinion. As much as possible, hopefully based on facts. Sorry, but your facts, in this case, are wrong and you are rationalising something you don’t understand when you say Wenger is stubborn or he’s blind to the problems on the pitch.
One thing I should learn though..I should end all my posts with FACT and Period. Obviously that means I am right and there is no room for debate. Which begs the question, why am I debating with you? You are right after all. FACT. Period. End of..
The answer to that might lie in my bloody insanity. Just ask rob. He copy/pastes posts from a few days ago to make ‘his’ point. But like you, he doesn’t understand, so he rationalises that I am bloody insane. Which to be fair might not be an incorrect assumption. And yet..somehow..I think I make more sense than most of the people on here. What does that say about the Arsenal fanbase at the moment?
Ok so there’s uniform agreement that Wenger is a useless overpaid git and that his time at Arsenal is finished.
In the real world, we know he won’t be getting sacked tomorrow morning – though I would dearly love this to pass.
Now. In the hypothetical world where Wenger gets sacked and Gus Hiddink takes over as Caretaker with Bergkamp as his assistant until the summer….think about it: Arsenal are 5 points or so off the CL places. The transfer window still has a week to run so there is a bit of time.
Now this isn’t a ‘Who would you sign’ thread. It is a ‘given the dross at your disposal, what would you do to change Arsenal and try and get us 4th if you were manager’?
I genuinely think there are at least 20 people on this forum who could do a better job than Wenger.
Here’s my two cents on what I would do if I was appointed manager tomorrow:
1. Ban on all Twitter accounts.
2. Ban on all pre-match interviews from players. Any interviews need to be approved by the manager first. It is far too easy to feed the press the endless stream of bullshit at the moment. It’s either loudmouth Song or some no-mark chatting shit and it needs to stop.
3. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES do we play 4-5-1 at home against teams outside the top 4. At home to every team from position 5-20 in the PL, the system is 4-4-2. We might only have one striker but then you accommodate the system. That means that you play Van Persie up top with Oxlade-Chamberlain just behind him.
You play a midfield 4 of Wilshere/Arteta/Gervinho (eurgh)
You play Thomas Vermaelen as a DCM. There is no longer oom for Alex Song in this team, the club needs solidity, not the Cameroonian wannabe Zico. Song is Out. Dropped. When he learns defensive discipline, he will play again. Vermaelen is very suspect defensively as showed up a few times against Man U. Stick him in the holding role. Least he has a brain. Shocked
4. Theo Walcott is dropped. He will get chances as a sub.
5. A new keeper of experience is signed. Someone like Schwarzer just as an emergency until season end. Chesney will watch his step for sure then.
6. You stop playing this high line bullshit. It’s a ridiculous thing to play a high line when you have Mertesacker in your team. You all saw how many times Welbeck got in behind on Sunday it was embarrassing.
7. Djourou never plays for Arsenal again. Ditto Diaby. Ditto Chamakh.
Song is on a final warning. Ramsey is dropped until he learns basic midfield discipline i.e. cut out the fancy-dan flicks and shit.
8. Every single training session defensive drills will be done as an absolute requirement. Anyone disagreeing with it is dropped. 5-a-side and a laugh is finished. Attacking players will also be taught the defensive side of the game (Cesc has confirmed he learnt more in 2 months at Barca about the defensive side of football than he had during 8 years at Arsenal!)
9. Completely change the training regime as it is clear it is leading to far too many soft tissue injuries. Revise the medical staff.
10. Instruct Chesney that the ball is never to be hoofed out That it is to be rolled out, distributed. Away from home the tactic will be to play a pressing game and to defend deep – and use the pace of Gervinho and Wilshere on the break. At home, it will be a possession game. Simple.
11. Andre Santos is never again to play as a defender. When he does get a chance, it will be ina wide midfield position.
12. Kieran Gibbs is transfer listed,
13. When Theo Walcott plays until the end of the season, he is either to play as a striker in a 4-4-2, or as the wide man in a front 3. He is never to play in midfield again.
14. Substitutions are to be made based on in-game performance and not hierarchy.
15. Arshavin is given one final chance. The first indication of laziness and he is banished.
Just a few random ideas on what a new manager could do, with the shit we have got at the minute.
@Jimmy. My 2 cents
1.) Get Keown, Dixon, Winterburn involved with coaching.
2.) Bring in Vieira for same reason, and as assistant boss.
3.) Full medical review.
Not neccessarily sacking staff, but a look at if we need to spend more on medical equipment or change training methods.
And above all, use Osteopaths not just for injuries, but for regular check ups and posture manipulation, thereby hopefully preventing slight posture misalignments that in turn can lead to muscle injuries.
4.) Full training ground review.
Buy new equipment and expand gym areas if needed.
5.) Repetitive defensive drills.
6.) Recognise that Song is an all round midfielder, but not the dedicated defensive midfielder we usually need.
7.) Flexibility of formations.
8.) Buy a striker to help out Van Persie.
9.) Increase win and goal bonuses, but avoid large wages for unproven players.
10.) Regular “Meet The Fans” events, to improve relationship between core supporters and players.
@Jimmy
Song is out?
Brilliant thinking.
As much as the present manager is having problems at least his being there keeps you from running the team. Granted it’s not much but we will have to be grateful for the little things now.
The first thing needing sorted at Arsenal is the wage structure, Diaby 60k? chamack 60k Van persie 70k? wtf? arsenal should introduce a pyramid structure so that the van.p’s and cescs of this world etc, can be paid in and around the going rate for there talent. we are wasting way to much money on players like diaby, chamack, arshavin, rosicky, squillaci, almunia, bendtner.etc in my opinion it’s just terrible management at Arsenals boardroom level.
1-we need go buy a real striker to backup Van Persie
2-we need 2 new central defenders, get rid of djourou,Squilacci ,metsaker
3-we need another defensive midfielder to push Song
4-we need a technically gifted offensive midfielder who can pass and score.get rid of diaby , Roscesky, Benayoum and put Ramsey on the bench
5-we need experienced ,not converted left and right back
@salom I agree how can we always claim not having the funds to buy top players and give these high wages to these dead woods.
Is the stupid management at Arsenal thought how much money we will lose if we do not make the top 4?IMO the way this club is being is nothing short of criminal. Instead of insulting our fans,they should have been taking advantage of the fact that we were one biggest growing football clubs in the world.
Does the management even think if Spurs finish in the top 4 and plays the CL, and get that extra revenue. They will be hard to unseat the following year especially if Harry remains their manager.
The implications for Arsenal could be long lasting. This is no longer the 80’s or 90’s
I really think you guys should take a break from AFC and chill out with the wife or go to the beach. I see comments are typed in numbered point form now, gathering of nutters? 😛
I jest…
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